Has the Irish language a future? August 4, 2010
Posted by Scandalcentral in Topical.Tags: Gaeilge, Irish
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So once again, election time approaches. Once again the Irish language is a hot topic for a few rural interest groups. Most Irish political party’s are of the opinion that the state should continue pumping millions into saving the language every year and that Irish should remain an obligatory part to our education system. As long as this is the case it keeps the likes of Foras na Gaeilge and Conradh na Gaeilge etc happy. However its clear that this strategy is failing. Irish is not spoken by the vast majority of citizens in this state. It’s a fact that highlights the sheer inaccuracy of our census system. (Any survey self-administered has to be taken with a pinch of salt) Furthermore, most students at second level hate Irish. Thousands every year don’t even turn up for the exam. Yet, it remains an obligatory exam. Naturally, we hear the same things time and again… moving the focus to spoken Irish, changing how it is thought etc etc. Someone change the bloody record! The Irish groups were singing that tune 15 years ago, yet no progress has been made. Even the so-called revolutionisation of the language by moving it to a spoken focus is failing. It’s now leading to a scenario that the standard of written is falling while the standard of spoken Irish is failing to improve. All the while, the taxpayer continues to spend millions every year “preserving” the language, when it quite clearly is dead if it even requires preservation.
Our strategy for our language is built by those who are blinded to reality. I invite anyone who claims that Irish is still among the nation to walk into any home and ask “Conas ata tu” I have tried it out, with a very low response rate. Aside from our Gealtachtaí and our schools, Irish is dead.
Personally, I have huge issues with Irish at second level. Why are we forcing thousands to study a subject they loathe. Why do we allow so much time to be given over to a subject that has no use after school and is no good to our economic future. Why is it in France, they are all studying the languages of their business neighbours, the languages that will provide huge benefit to the country going forward. Why are more and more industrialised states teaching Chinese at second level? Because these languages are vital to future trade. Not only are they vital, but failure to have a fluent population in them hinders a nation greatly. It’s a myth that the Irish are innovative, we haven’t an innovative bone in our bodies. But we are a nation that follows, even if slowly. We have legalised civil partnerships and allowed divorce even if it was 20 years after most developed nations. Well right now it’s time to make some tough decisions and be innovative. Otherwise, Ireland may find itself left behind in an ever-changing business world.
The argument that Irish must be retained as obligatory for senior cycle of second level is feeble to say the least. The simple reason put forward is that if it’s an option, no one will choose it and it will die out. However can one not see that if there’s a reason why people wont chose it then what does that tell you? For those people I also remind them that the language is already as good as dead. It wont take much more to kill it! However several facts are ignored when debating the merits of retaining or not retaining the subject to Leaving Certificate level. Every year, many students chose French, Spanish and German. They are not forced. Every year there are students who chose languages that are more historical than real like Latin. If made an option, certainly some will chose it, I have no doubt. My belief is that an option should be given to students. Require two foreign languages be learnt for Junior Certificate and then offer a choice between Irish and Spanish for example. The student can stick with their Irish or chose a language which will be of great benefit to the Irish economy.Many who argue in the defence of the Irish language also point out that is teaches students important lessons about our heritage, past and culture. I frankly care very little about this at all, you won’t be surprised to find that many share that view in our education system. A subject is offered if one has interest in this- History!
The final point that must be noted, generally comes from the hard left, who claim that a nation without a language is not a nation at all. If I was living in 1800-1930 I may have cared. Today, I find it irrelevant and meaningless. Rhetoric is not welcome at the last supper. Over the next few years massive decisions must be taken in relation to Irish and the future of the Irish economy. We are currently weak and we are getting weaker. We are losing vital, highly skilled jobs to other nations like Switzerland. (A more expensive place to do business) just because we can’t compete linguistically. Irish is a waste of money, time and effort. It’s well time the economy came first, at a time of record unemployment of graduates. Will it happen? I’ll be in a coffin before it see’s the light of day. Nothing new.
Im not sure I agree, but great info anyway thanks
So why don’t you just move to the US, Canada, or or England? If you don’t understand the original language of Ireland has value, then your ignorance is so deep nothing anyone says will ever change it. The mistake made in the restoration of the language was exactly what you describe though: an inability by the Irish to make tough decisions. 80 years ago use of English should have been completely banned, and the prohibition backed up with severe penalties, removing Bearla totally from schools, government and media. Speaking English should have been punished with heavy fines or imprisonment. If that had been done, within one generation, Ireland would have become a majority Irish-speaking society, and today the Irish could spend time at school studying English and Chinese, the languages of “the future”. Your prescription for an Ireland devoid of Irish is stunningly depressing and shows a staggering lack of interest in your own culture, nation and people.
Yes, naturally! Because culture is a money spinning business that will help our economic recovery. I’m afraid my only advice to you is to return to the real world and actually smell the dying roses. Some rhetoric about 80 years ago is not helpful to this debate at all. Irish is a dead language, that is being artificially kept alive by Government spending. This money could be spent to market Ireland as a tourist destination as opposed to being wasted- for Irish is dead.
I pretty much agree with your points, although I don’t entirely agree with your negativity towards the Irish language.
I think a lot of this negativity has been created by the same failed teaching policies that you mentioned. Since being an independent state there has never been any clear goals/vision of where we as a country wanted to get to with the Irish language.
Compulsory teaching has been a disaster. It has fostered the sort of animosity you have and indeed I had towards the language.
There is no point in doing this compulsory teaching unless the aim and purpose was that Irish was going to be spoken on a daily basis – for the vast majority of us this is and was nver the case. Also the quality of Irish being taught was undoubtedly poor in my opinion as most teachers of te language in our schools aren’t even native speakers.
I do think it would be a shame to allow the language just die however but new policies need to be taken.
Some ideas:
1. Take the Catholic religiousity out of the language. The catholic church thought and to a certain extent still think Ireland is their fiefdom, well we’ve got them to take their hands off our kids, time we got them to take their hands off our language too. Instead of dia agus mhuire dhuit. can we not gaelicise Hello
2. Simplify the language as much as reasonably possible. Israel reintroduced Hebrew as a successful language by modernising it. Can’t see why the same can’t be done with Irish.
3. Grow the gaeltacht areas – make sure they are kept thriving – so that the language spoken on the ground is thriving, rather than just amongst the learned classes in Dublin and other cities.
Anyway I agree that people should be freed up to make their own choices with the language. I actually think it would ultimately benefit the language. As it would remove the hostility that unfortunately many of us feel towards the language.
Many of you irish think only about money and profit thats why you people dont speak your own language anymore.
If all nations would think that way then everybody would speak only english by now. You compare French that has 60 milion speakers with Irish language wtf man?
You say that irish shouldnt be teached cuz it takes alot of tax money and that it isnt useful for buissnes. Slovene language also isnt useful for any foregin bussinies (wich is predominant becouse of our small market size)yet we preserve our language by having it in schools.
You are in crissis becouse you were all thinking only about profits not becouse of irish language laws. You want low taxes, low prices and big foregin loans thats why you indebted yourself.
Look around: Sweden (Swedish, Yiddish, Finnish, Sami), Switzerland (French, German, Italian), Denmark (Danish), Belgium (French, Dutch) etc. They all support their languages they have big taxes yet they have solid economies.
Dont be fools!
You clearly are not from Ireland. French is the most widely spoken foreign language among Irish people due to the focus on it in the education system.
You are also being very insulting on the Ireland with the above comments and you clearly dont fully understand the fact that Irish is a dead language. Latin is more alive!
Irish people do want low taxes, nothing wrong with that. Low prices? I dont think so, we are one of the most expensive countries in the world… and for these big foreign loans… dont even patronize us. We dont want a cent from and country, except we are being forced to take a bailout even though we can survive without it.
Your argument that taxes should be raised to support a dying language is inaccurate. For example, millions of people are able to speak Flemish in Belgium, thats not the case with Irish here.
Overall, please do some research before coming onto this forum and talking rubbish!
Yes i am not irish its pretty clear from my comment i am from Slovenija.
I am not trying to insult irish but i am telling you whats your problem. I have been to ireland and i like ireland.
Yes latin is alive in Vatican and among western scholars becouse they cant study history, theology, etc. without it. Irish is dead? Well maybe my stay in Ireland was just a mirage.
Look its not wrong that you have low taxes thats ok. You dont want foregin cent ok maybe you realy dont. But in last few years your country attracted with low corporate tax more foregin investment money than most Eu countries and results of greed are obvious. Thats like you would fill a sheep with more grass than it can eat!
I am not saying i would rase tax for language far cry from it! I was mentioning taxes in context with economical crisis not language revival. Example Scandinavians, Germans, French etc. have big taxes yet they werent hit by crisis so hard. But i dont talk about language education costs here but taxes in general (health care, education, infrastructure, administration etc.)
You should know that costs of educating people a language are negligible if we cauculate all governmental costs.
Is Norwegian, Danish, Finnish widely learnt abroad? Abroad they are learnt mostly by enthusiasts and people with strong connections with dose countries. Yet they all spend money to teach citizen their native language.
Yes those nations all speak their language but thats becouse they didnt have bullshit mentality that only economicaly viable language deserves to exist like many irish and you have.
Flemish (a dialect of dutch spoken in belgium) was from formation of Belgium until mid 20. century neglected and disregarded by government and media becouse wallon was rich and prosperus while flemings were economicaly backward and rural all buissnies were done in french. Yet they didnt sold out their language like irish despite same pressure from foregin speaking government and economical pressure of french wallons.
If all nations would have that mentality there wouldnt be Flemish dutch, Finnish, Slovene, Polish, Czech, Norwegian and other languages anymore.
Sami, Kven and Yiddish are endangered in Scandinavia and are realy useless in bussines yet scandinavians are taking efforts and spend money to save them. Two surviving sorbian languages in Germany are also endangered (their numbers similar to numbers of irish speakers) yet Germany is giving money to lusatian organisations.
But hey guess wich country is in crissis? Its not German its not Sweden or Norway no their not it is Ireland ladies and gentelman land of shamrocks, sheeps and people who are ashame of their own language!!!
Overall please do some research before replying to me!
No I’m sorry but you still don’t understand at all! Flemish is spoken by millions of people. That is NOT comparable with a scenario of Irish which is spoken by a couple thousand.
Your still trying to link economics to linguistics which is wrong.
Irish people want low taxes and have embraced the free market. Perhaps your country should try it? Then you might grow and develop like we have. Ireland is still the 3rd richest nation in Europe. Perhaps you shouldn’t forget that?
You still have little understanding for the fact that the only reason anyone in this country speaks Irish is down to Government subsidy. Remove that and the language disappears. Hence why so many people now want the Government to remove its influence.. as it has done with every other area of the economy.
Overall, please try to stop patronizing us.
All you seem to care about is our precious economy and money, money and more money. Money and prosperity isn’t the be all and end all. You need to look past that and look at the people, and its culture.
There is weight to “80 year old rhetoric”. I personally believe that a country without a language is not a country at all. What is the point of things if you don’t have a culture; a way to identify yourself. If you speak English, immediately people will think you’re English. Irish gives us our separate, unique identity, and that is why I think it should be nurtured.
I simply can’t accept your statement that “Irish is a dead language”.Personally, I love the language and intend to study it further in university. I know that there are people out there in Ireland that love the language. This is obvious. There is an Irish speaking society in every university. My only hope for the future is that more people will take up this beautiful language. Therefore, if I love it and I now others do, is the language not alive. Furthermore, you seem to disregard the fact that there are thousands of people in Gaeltacht areas who speak Irish as their first language. This cannot be said of Latin. Look at TG4, RnaG, and other broadcasters that do work through Irish. People want to watch this. If TG4 didn’t receive any viewer-ship, it would be axed. Irish is obviously a living language, even if this is within minority.
The question the government faces in the future is “How can we make this language more popular, more spoken?”. I don’t believe the government are of this mindset with regard to the Irish language at this present moment in time, but I have hope for the future that this will be the case.
Have some interest in your history and your culture. It will make you appreciate more why you live in a Republic, not in the UK (not to sound overly patriotic).
It puzzles me to think a government would ever make Irish optional in school, as it is the Principal official language of the state as outlined by Bunreacht na hÉireann, but this is a story for another day.
I largely agree with what KA-8 had to say about the Irish language. The reason for which we speak Irish, like Slovenian is not economic gain. We speak it because it is a heritage, it is something that should be common between us all. The government spends a minimal amount on promoting Irish in comparison to servicing debts or paying pensions, and this amount is worthwhile. I agree with him in that the notion of an “economically-viable language” is ridiculous. If that was the case, the whole world would speak English. Wouldn’t that be ideal?
I am interested in hearing what you have to say about this…
Also, in response to your statement, “the only reason anyone in this country speaks Irish is down to Government subsidy. ” This is completely false, and I don’t feel the need to add reason to this fact
Please do. Government funding is the only thing keeping the Gaeltacht alive.
You are hopeless. I couldn’t be bothered arguing with you.